Tradespeople and business therewith

[puzzlement]

I hope home maintainence 101 is on-topic enough here: I couldn't find a sister community that looked more suitable.

My overall situation: I live with a partner and our baby in an apartment on which we are mortgagers. We've had it for some years. We live in a metropolitan area of Australia.

We need to get some fairly elementary electrical work done and I have no idea how to commission it!I feel like everyone else received a "how to be an adult" book that included this and I just missed out totally. Some of my friends have renovated! More than once!

The work we need done is twofold: we need a powerpoint fixed and we need our bathroom exhaust fan replaced. Just to head off one suggestion at the pass: this is a small building, and does not employ a full time manager or similar, or have a service that organises tradespeople for residents. Under strata title in Australia they maintain the common areas including common walls, we maintain the interior. Also, in Australia licensed electricians have to do electrical work, you can't maintain your own wiring. (And even if it was legal, I'm not competent.)

I can figure out the powerpoint: I go to the phonebook (online), find random electricians in the area and get them to come out. Only one question about that:

(a) is it normal to ask for a couple of quotes on the work, or should I just get whoever agrees to turn up first to do the work? Should I get them to quote, say, an hourly rate on the phone?

Now for the exhaust fan:

(b) do I need to go out and buy a replacement fan myself? I can't imagine that electricians do your shopping for you! But then:

(c) do I get the electrician to come in, tell me what to buy and then have them come back to install it? Or will they turn up and tell me I should have bought it before wasting their time?

(d) do fan units come in a limited range of sizes? I'm not keen on needing to hire a second person to change the hole in the ceiling for us.

(c) is most of the reason I haven't just done it already. I really dislike being in those "you should have known that..." situations.

Edited to add: my difficulty in getting recommendations due to not having a social network in the area comes up in comments. I'm not really looking for input into how to build one though, more in the answers to these questions in the post.

Edited Nov 2010: My final thoughts in comments.

Comments

[uninvitedcat]

I can't speak on the specifics of Australia, being based in the UK myself, but I think I can answer some generalities!

a) Yes, it's totally normal to ask for several quotes. For comparison purposes if nothing else - you know, to get a general idea of how much the work you want done will cost, whether the tradesman you're talking to is trying to overprice etc etc.

b) You could buy the replacement fan yourself, but as you've already realised you do have a potential risk of buying the wrong thing. (I recently replaced my bathroom fan and I did *so much* measuring of the space I had, and then lots of reading of packets to see if what I was looking at was even suitable!) Or your electrician will supply you with one - they will charge you for the part as well as their time, and you may end up with a more expensive (or pay more for a less expensive) fan that if you'd sourced it yourself.

c) Some tradesmen will want to see the space you're talking about, as it may influence the price they quote you. For example, if they'll be trying to work in a restricted space, or if there are other elements that will affect what they can or can't do (where electric wiring runs behind the wall, and I totally can't think of anything else that may apply from what you've mentioned, but I am not an expert!...)

There may not be any specific relevant issues to the work you want done, and some tradesmen will give you a rough guide price over the phone. But it's quite normal to get several people out (not necessarily at the same time!) to give you quotes for comparision purposes. And don't be shy of asking them what sort of fan should replace the one you've already got!

[gwyn_bywyd]

I feel like everyone else received a "how to be an adult" book that included this and I just missed out totally.

Look, if you find this book, I would really appreciate you handing it along to me when you've read it! :-)

I think earlier posts you have made about "all my friends live elsewhere" may limit the usefulness of this suggestion, but I do like using good tradespersons recommended by those who've had them before.

I suggest that you ask the electricians you are asking to come in and quote about the question of should you should purchase the fan, and the range of fans available. BUT I dislike as a woman being treated as incompetent for asking these questions. However as you've said, having them out twice would doubtless be a considerable cost, so you may have to decide if enduring condescension is worth a considerable monetary saving.

[ex_calla653]

If you ever find that ook, let me know. Sometimes I still could use a copy of it *g*.

I'm in Germany, so can't really speak for Australia and don'z know how helpful this might be.

a) Yes, definitely. You can even mention that your talking to several people to get quotes. It's not only how much they'll ask per hour, but you can also get a clearer picture what's included in the services they offer. You can then also ask about the fan. Some might tell you that it would be cheaper if you buy the fan yourself (if you find someone really helpful, they might even tell you which fan to pick up), others will have the fan and install it.

What you also might do, instead of looking through the phone-book: talk to your neighbours or work-colleagues. Ask them who they would recommend. You can get a lot of useful information that way, especially if you talk to older people who have been living in that area for a while.

c) For a long while I felt the same, now I tell myself: How can you know, if no-one ever told you. Also, nothing wrong with asking questions, that's the way we learn.

[puzzlement]

Thanks!

One of the problems, as gwyn_bywyd mentioned, is that I know almost no one in my local area. It will be very difficult to get recommendations as I will need to make new friends to get them!

[ex_calla653]

It will be very difficult to get recommendations as I will need to make new friends to get them!

It might be a good way to talk to people and get to know them? They don't even have to be friends. In your situation I would probably start by ask my downstair neighbours even though I don't really know them and our contact so far has been mostly limited to Hello.

[puzzlement]

This building changes residents all the time. Our downstairs neighbour only moved into the area the other week!

I'll see if someone from mothers' group has recommendations. It's not that I don't know why it would be useful to have acquaintances here as that it's that I have limited time with a new baby.

[inkstone]

I live in the US so I'm not sure how helpful this will be, but here are my two cents.

a) Absolutely. Ask for multiple quotes. Over the phone will work but I'm sure some will want to come out and see the site itself. Jobs that look basic sometimes turn out not to be, and some contractors will like to know that in advance.

b) & c) You can buy the fan yourself or the electrician might buy it for you. It's why talking to multiple people for quotes is useful and helpful because you can get an idea of what their services will include. It's usually better to buy the fan yourself because 1) you'll get exactly what you want, and 2) it'll probably be cheaper. But it's well within their scope to come in and tell you what's suitable.

d) IIRC, they do come in a pretty limited range. The range has less to do with size and more to do with air strength? (There's a specific term that's escaping me right now.) I redid a bathroom last year so I replaced the exhaust fan and I don't recall there being that much choice in terms of size.

[yvi]

I can't answer any of this, I just wanted to let you know:

a) this is completely on-topic here

b) if you ever find that damn book, please scan it, upload it, and share it with us ;)

[toliver]

I thing I think no one has mentioned, it is expected here in the States to ask for references. Then call the people and ask them about the work the electrician did for them. Asking neighbors if they can recommend an electrician would be a great ice-breaker for you to get to know people in your area.

[puzzlement]

I've never heard of this in Australia (edit: for smaller amounts of work, I'd certainly do it if someone was eg rewiring my house), it also sounds like hellish amount of work, to be honest. The idea of getting several people in to quote and then ringing several references for each (especially while taking care of a little baby with a very loud scream that means that I may have to abruptly end any and all conversations) is starting to sound like the reason I put this off so long in the first place.

Thanks though, I realise none of that's your fault.

[draigwen]

Re getting recommendations, at our work we have an electronic message board where people ask for recommendations for all sorts of things. Is there any chance you might have access to something like that? There are also loads of online communities where people can ask for recommendations - there's one called MyStreet that I've used here in the UK.

[puzzlement]

I'm on maternity leave and normally work 20km away in an entirely different suburb, and my partner telecommutes for a London based company. So work is out.

I'm sure I can find review sites, but then I have a lot of problems figuring out whether the reviewers themselves are any good, since most people write short, information-free reviews. I'll look around though.

[kyrielle]

I'm in the US - I call and ask them for quotes. I actually take it as a red flag if they offer a quote over the phone and don't want to see it and don't note that it's a guess, because those quotes are most likely to change and those handymen are most likely to do things quick and dirty (like quoting over the phone instead of taking a proper look!). Here at least they don't charge to come take a look - they make that trip as an investment in getting the job.

[puzzlement]

As an update on this:

(a) I ended up taking my father's advice, which was "no one will quote on a job that small". Also I wasn't really up for making local friends and finding electrician names and then getting multiple electricians in and then ringing all their references.

This was a wise decision for what turned out to be a fifteen minute job. I realise it's potentially risky, but I'm glad I didn't spend tens of hours commissioning half an hour of a tradie's time.

I googled, and rang the top likely looking choice.

(b) the electricians said we could do this either way. Next time I'll probably ask them to do it, because we had to return one fan and get another and then it took another week to get the electrician to come back out.

(c) to (d) each brand comes with its own cut into the ceiling needed. Electricians can cut into gyprock ceilings, but they can't fix them up. So that might be another reason to ask them to supply it: it was a pain getting one that involved only expanding the existing hole.

Plus, it turns out our apartment has a shallow ceiling cavity (most do) and most fan units are really high. So that was another constraint.

The electrician told us that painters are often a good choice to do minor gyprock work (over plasters): they're accustomed to cheap fixit jobs.

[lauredhel]

"no one will quote on a job that small".

I was ... just coming in to say that! We've found that no tradie worth their salt is going to do a free home visit to quote on a 15-60 minute job, it's a waste of their time and yours. You'd probably be pushing it to get anyone decent to free quote on jobs around the $500ish order of magnitude, I reckon, depending on the economic climate.

Do you have a dreamwidth/lj group for your area, or perhaps an active freecycle "cafe" (spinoff chat) group? They might be decent places for recommendations. Or maybe one of the home renovation forums.

Lastly... yeah, we always get plumbers and electricians to supply their own stuff. Maybe we could save some pocket change by shopping ourselves, but the time and spoons input combined with the risk of stuffing things up makes it not worth it for us. Also, I figure if something goes wrong, they're both supplier and fitter, and there's less chance of awkward wrangling about who's responsible for the problem.

[puzzlement]

You'd probably be pushing it to get anyone decent to free quote on jobs around the $500ish order of magnitude, I reckon, depending on the economic climate.

Indeed, that's precisely the sum where our owner's corporation (the company formed from the apartment owners collectively, which owns the shared bits of the building) will allow tradies to go ahead with the work without sending a written quote first. Under $500, just fix it and send us the bill. Over $500, quote and wait for approval. Useful rule of thumb, discovered in a recent round of plumbing problems.

The trouble with living where we live is that almost all groups are for "Sydney", and the proportion of people in them who live in the outer suburbs is really really tiny. Questions get a lot of "gosh I don't know anything up your way, but you could always call $FOO and see if zie'll go 30km out of his way, zie's really great!" Frustrating.

We do have a local freecycle group and it has a not totally defunct chat list though, so that's good for future reference! Thanks.